Posts by Cold Steel

18

AUSTRALIA: Jehovah's Witness Malcolm Lee guilty of raping 80-year-old-woman

by jwleaks in

friday 16, december 2016. abc news: malcolm lee, 56, has been sentenced to three years, nine months jail for the attack on the woman, 80, at her home near lakes entrance in march.

during a home massage, organised as a gift by the victim's daughter, lee touched, kissed and digitally raped the woman.

he claimed he believed at the time it was consensual and she was enjoying it.

Cold Steel

Saename » That's probably not the most appropriate thing one can ask, but... it's been on my mind for so damn long...

Well, some people like Lady Ga-Ga and Madonna.

So there's no accounting for taste.

27

Here's a morbid thought...

by Rainbow_Troll in

it probably will never happen but... imagine the gb recieved some new light that told them the great tribulation was imminent.

the world is going to hell and all jws can expect until armageddon is terrible persecution the likes of which no christian has ever experienced in two thousand years.

but jehovah has a solution: put yourself and your family 'to sleep' and after armageddon's over, jehovah will 'wake his people up' at the resurrection.

How do you know the GB is getting "NEW LIGHT" on anything? They've already said they don't receive revelation and that they're fallible. But now you're talking about them advocating suicide. But you give no references, no documentation.

Can you be more specific?

10

Question for believers here, Ecclesiastes 1:4 and Psalm 105;5 "Earth remain forever".

by James Mixon in

what is your understanding on the earth remain forever???

today it's a fact (99,999%) that the earth will be consumed by the sun in the future be it 3 million or 3 billion years.

a topic we have been discussing here on paradise earth in the last two or three days and i notice no believer chimed in.

Cold Steel

According to Matthew 5:18, there will be a time when heaven and Earth "vanish." But this was a figure of speech. Jesus speaks of the "meek" inheriting the earth. In Christian eschatology, the earth was "baptized" during the flood and upon Jesus' return will be cleaned by fire, being thus baptized by water and fire. In like manner, people became heavenly heirs by water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit (fire). In the same manner as people, the world will first "die" and then, by the power of Christ, be resurrected, becoming first dead and then made perfect. And once the earth is resurrected, it will be eternal, world's without end. Thus it will abide forever.

24

devil question

by Carol1111 in

i had a discussion with 4 jws today and they told me that jesus could not be tempted, ( they say that he would not be perfect if he could) but also they told me that satan tempted jesus in the wilderness.. can anyone clarify their beliefs please.

i like to give them a reasoned argument when i talk to them, but have never noticed this conflict of ideas before..

Cold Steel

If Jesus could not be tempted, then why would the Devil expend the time and energy in doing it? Jesus resisted because he was perfect, but no one says that he couldn't be tempted.

Clearly, when Jesus asked the Father to remove the bitter cup, he knew that the price would steep and that he would suffer and die. He was informed that the choice was his, but he also was told the consequences would be catastrophic for the rest of us, so he persevered.

To say he wasn't tempted just doesn't make sense given the situation.

21

The Evils of Aluminum

by NeonMadman in

aluminum was an issue that became a real “tempest in a teapot” for the watchtower.

it influenced their teaching for almost 50 years and, frankly, created an impression among observers that their members were off-the-wall fanatics.

for all those years, the golden age and other watchtower publications took the position that aluminum cookware and utensils were one of the great health hazards of the 20th century.

Cold Steel

WTWizard » I would say silver is the metal of Satan. Silver represents freedom from financial bondage. It is also the best conductor of both heat and electricity, and is one of the most reflective metals of all. It also kills bacteria and viruses that can cause disease, but is harmless to humans. As such, it is both a monetary and industrial metal that represents freedom. And Satan represents freedom.

Uhhh...okay.

Actually, silver has always been considered as a protection from evil. It kills werewolves and is used against witchcraft. It represents stability, light and virtue, things Satan usually isn't identified with. It also quickly tarnishes and that has been identified with maintaining one's integrity and honor, which require constant care and polishing.

Judas is said to have been given thirty pieces of silver to betray Jesus, but he ultimately rejected it.

I've never heard of Satan representing freedom. In fact, he is represented as causing bondage.

So your outlook is interesting.

14

What Is "Counsel" and How Does It Work?

by Cold Steel in

yes, i know what "counsel" means, but it clearly has an esoteric meaning.

in the academy award winning bunker video series, the noble brother brown admits he didn't handle it well when elder ben (who was a junior elder...uh, yes, that's right) gave him counsel about a talk he'd given.

not enough use of scriptures.

Cold Steel

Can't these people just go to church without all this...excitement? Just what sort of tyranny goes on?

When I took the Bible Study, the two fellows who came over were very nice and unconfrontational. I asked them a question they didn't know the answer to and they said they would research it and answer me the following week. I knew these guys fairly well by this point and they liked sticking around and shooting the breeze (I think they counted it on their stats because after the studies we tended to discuss other things that were of a more secular nature.)

The next week only one of the guys came by, but he had a rather bombastic man with him...all business. We got right to the study and he got right to the little book. The guy I knew introduced him as an elder and gave him considerable deference to the point he barely looked at me.

The elder was Type A all the way and his back never touched the couch, but he sat straight up and on the edge. He asked me questions from the book, and if I didn't answer them correctly and succinctly, he wanted to know why. He finally brought up the question I'd had and now my pioneer friend was staring right through him and nodding every time he made a point.

The elder was rude and obnoxious and acted like he was a police detective. He couldn't answer my question but said he would research it. Then they excused themselves and left. Well, they never came back nor did they call. And they left me with a few of their books, one with notes and the dates that the reader had finished each chapter. They were supposed to be on loan, but I still have them. I know it wasn't the idea of the original two guys not to return so I assume it was the elder.

And here I thought I'd just gotten a peach!

14

What Is "Counsel" and How Does It Work?

by Cold Steel in

yes, i know what "counsel" means, but it clearly has an esoteric meaning.

in the academy award winning bunker video series, the noble brother brown admits he didn't handle it well when elder ben (who was a junior elder...uh, yes, that's right) gave him counsel about a talk he'd given.

not enough use of scriptures.

Cold Steel

Very good points, as always, Blondie. When you say, “Elders can counsel other elders but not outside their own congregation without creating a rift that might last 20 years," you point out something that is simply human nature. No one wants to be criticized by peers or underlings. That's why I say the word “counseled" ought to considered esoteric in JW terminology.

Honest counseling, as I see it, would be as it was in The Godfather (which ought to be canonized I my view, but that's another discussion).

So it is when Vito Corleone counsels his son: “Barzini will move against you first. He'll set up a meeting with someone that you absolutely trust, guaranteeing your safety. And at that meeting, you'll be assassinated...it's an old habit. I spend my life trying not to be careless."

That's good counsel.

When Tom Hagen counsels the don, he defines the situation, then offers options and a recommendation. That's counsel. And when Calo says, “In Sicily, women are more dangerous than shotguns" -- that's good counsel! “Use more scriptures in your talks" is NOT good counsel! It can create rifts with a lot of people, and with good reason.

In Galatians 2, I see Paul's remarks as contention, not counsel. He was not offering Peter any useful advice as Peter was attempting to walk a fine line between his Jewish culture and the future Gentiles who were being courted, or proselytized. In this situation, both Peter and Paul were apostles, and both were led by revelation in those efforts (see verse 2), but Peter, as you state, held the binding keys on Earth and in Heaven. In my own opinion, Paul was out of line because he viewed Peter as a bit of a hypocrite. Instead of taking Peter aside and saying, “Look, I know what you're trying to do, but we're in danger of sending mixed signals. I propose we take the matter before the Lord and see what His will is so we're not telling the Jews one thing and these Greeks another." At that point he could have offered his own views on where to draw the line and yet respect Peter's seniority in letting him make the decision.

To me that would be counsel. But criticism is not counsel, especially dressing down Peter and others in public, then subsequently boasting of it in an epistle.

That's why I asked how the JWs view “counseling" outside it's ordinary meaning. From the way it sounds, it means imperfect, flawed people telling other imperfect, flawed people how to improve their lives and How they do things.

LongHair » I...think the religion opened this can of worms. Unfortunately, certain people want to get into the act and want to be treated "special". Then, everybody and their brother will start saying they're "anointed".

Yep, but why would the Society teach that all the first century saints were going to be part of that anointed class? Why did they rate that status? And since this “John-class" group is deemed to be symbolic anyway, with 12,000 being taken from each of Israel's twelve tribes, why does the number have to be literal (as many apocayptic scholars have suggested)?

The religion started to imply people might have psychological problems if they think they are anointed!

Yes, of course.

Just for your information, none of these people got any special respect from me and I tended to avoid them.

Well, I always say, if you can't beat them, join them! If you're going to buy into the religion, why not fly first class? Why should some reformed tax collector in the first century be part of the heavenly crowd while I have to gather sea shells and plan family reunions for trillions of years in a Paradise Earth? And that's only if I'm not destroyed during Armageddon, which I hope happens rather than being part of the great crowd.

14

What Is "Counsel" and How Does It Work?

by Cold Steel in

yes, i know what "counsel" means, but it clearly has an esoteric meaning.

in the academy award winning bunker video series, the noble brother brown admits he didn't handle it well when elder ben (who was a junior elder...uh, yes, that's right) gave him counsel about a talk he'd given.

not enough use of scriptures.

Cold Steel

LongHairedGal » any idiot there feels they are entitled to give you their "counsel". This is no exaggeration. This can take the form of polite advice in conversation, a phone call OR it can come in the form of remarks. This can happen any time because some Witness either saw or heard you saying, doing, wearing, attending, associating or working wherever, etc...Witnesses are also notorious for gossip and tend to envy, so if you have education or a decent job, you are more likely to be scrutinized.

Well, in the case of Bro. Brown, he felt bad because he didn't take the less senior elder's counsel about using more scriptures in his talks. He thanked “Ben” for his counsel, but inwardly he resented it. But what if he had, at the time, said: “Look, Ben, when you give your talks, you can use as many scriptures as your heart desires. But when I give my talks, I'll use however many scriptures as the Spirit guides me to use.”

Would this be considered out of line? Sinful, even?

Also, do they call people by their titles? Since Brown said he'd been an elder “longer” than Ben, he obviously felt (at the time) that the counsel was unjustified. It made me wonder if Brown was still an elder since they called him “brother.”

FedUpJW > You must run around looking for any and all excuses to jump down the throat of your fellow "brother" or "sister" with unsolicited, unwarranted, unwanted, needless advice in the ever present agenda of control.

When someone offers this advice, how do they do it? “Hi, brother Brown...great talk, but if I may offer you a little counsel, you'd make your points better if you used a few more scriptures.”

If everone does it, I reckon meetings would be somewhat stressful. But is the rule that you can counsel down, but not up? And I suppose counseling a member of the GB would be out of the question.

Now what if I fancied myself one of the Anointed Class and partook of the Memorial every year? Would I still expect to be counseled? Being a former member of the faithful slave class, why should I listen to the great crowders?

14

What Is "Counsel" and How Does It Work?

by Cold Steel in

yes, i know what "counsel" means, but it clearly has an esoteric meaning.

in the academy award winning bunker video series, the noble brother brown admits he didn't handle it well when elder ben (who was a junior elder...uh, yes, that's right) gave him counsel about a talk he'd given.

not enough use of scriptures.

Cold Steel

I've never actually been to a Kingdom Hall, but I've heard the term "counseled" used here repeatedly. Even when it hasn't, I've heard stories where JW members have had other members give advice that, had it happened in my church, would have resulted in some quick counter counsel.

But when you say a JW rep is the "final word," do you mean no one would dare counsel him (but that he is free to counsel others)? What about women who poke their noses into the affairs of other women? Is that called "counsel"? Can a woman counsel a man?

Paul said let women keep silent in the churches, but quoting that particular passage can result in grave physical and psychological...distress. But given the Society's penchant for literal exegesis (like the blood thing), I'm surprised women don't have to cover themselves and confine their questions to their husbands.

21

The Evils of Aluminum

by NeonMadman in

aluminum was an issue that became a real “tempest in a teapot” for the watchtower.

it influenced their teaching for almost 50 years and, frankly, created an impression among observers that their members were off-the-wall fanatics.

for all those years, the golden age and other watchtower publications took the position that aluminum cookware and utensils were one of the great health hazards of the 20th century.

Cold Steel

I'm not aware of any recent studies indicating that aluminum is a health hazard. It's still one of the active ingredients in antiperspirants and if there was any evidence to show that it was a link between it and Alzheimer's, you'd be hearing about it.

I'm not sold on the idea that aluminum is entirely safe, but if so, it certainly hasn't been proven. Pertaining as to any vindication of the Society, even if it was right, it would be no more or less significant than if it had been published in the Christian Science Monitor. Ultimately it's the instinct of the editor, the research of its reporters and the confirmation of data and scientific results that result in the accuracy of its publication. Finally, it's the freedom to publish (governmental and corporate) that gives the publication its drive and interspection.